This debate focuses on the relationship between the Tea Party movement and the Republican Party, which has been a hot topic in recent weeks. Republicans appreciate and admire the activities of various Tea Party organizations, but several Tea Party leaders, including Diane Olson, want to wage war on the GOP. Diane is promising a major battle soon after the November election.
In our debate, Diane gave a long concluding statement so I am making these introductory comments. This exchange began because of my recent article The Great Myth: The GOP Establishment vs. The Tea Party http://diplomatdc.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/the-great-myth-the-gop-establishment-vs-the-tea-party-by-gregory-hilton/ The article quoted Dana Milbank of the Washington Post:
Who in the supposed Republican establishment has opposed the Tea Party? . . those peddling this account have largely created a straw man. The Republican establishment of popular imagination no longer exists. If there is a Republican establishment, the Tea Party is it.
The vast majority of GOP lawmakers already display the conservative purity that the Tea Partyers have been demanding. Fully 86 percent of Republicans in the House and Senate were dubbed “ACU Conservatives” by the American Conservative Union, for voting the conservative line at least 80 percent of the time in 2009.
I then analyzed many of this year’s Tea Party campaigns which overwhelmingly involved one conservative opposing another conservative. A situation similar to Delaware where a conservative defeated a moderate was rare. Diane Olson vehemently objected. At the beginning of the debate she told her friends I have:
“a milder form of the liberal disease. . . I zinged him again a few minutes ago but he’s a trooper. Sticks to his Republican status quo. . . This poor mild-mannered DC-insider is really feeling the pain, huh? I really should lay off him, but this is way too much fun!” At the end of the debate she concluded I was “A flaming Liberal who calls himself a GOP moderate. He thinks middle of the line Americans are right-wing extremists. He gave me some long dissertation . . .
This guy’s head is like concrete. . . Glenn Beck’s book ‘Arguing with Idiots’ comes to mind.
Seriously, the entrenched Republicans REALLY are fighting against America taking our country back and using the Republican Party to do so. . . Don’t be fooled by the entrenched Republican establishment. We’ll need to tackle them next after November. Some Republicans are not conservatives. He claims to be a “Moderate Conservative” but nowadays that really means a flaming liberal (instead of a radical liberal). These types of exchanges will help us understand the remaining weaknesses in the Republican Party and deal with those appropriately after November. It’s truly an eye-opener isn’t it? . . I’m pretty sure I must be on the GOP “watch list” now as a result of my exchanges with the DC Republican guy. He actually gave me the ‘last word’ on our exchange and I took him up on it. Bet he regrets that now!”
I have never called myself a “GOP moderate” or a “moderate conservative”. I am a conservative and I do not know of any “GOP watch list.” While Diane is not fond of me, she is an intelligent and articulate spokesman for the Tea Party cause. She has admirable accomplishments and many devoted fans. Nevertheless, this debate demonstrates her extremism, but that is my personal opinion. I am not authorized to speak in the name of the Republican Party, and I was last on their payroll decades ago. On the other hand, Diane feels comfortable in portraying herself as the representative of “real Americans” and the entire Tea Party movement. My introductory observations are:
- Both debate participants are obscure figures and our views can easily be dismissed. What can not be denied is the Tea Party’s major impact on elections, and its dominant role will continue. In many states turnout in GOP primaries this year doubled, enthusiasm is sky high, registration has increased significantly and new donors have appeared. Most of the credit for this belongs to Barack Obama.
- The rise of the Tea Party has been a wonderful development, and I believe 98% of the Tea Party agenda matches the 2008 Republican Platform and the 2010 Pledge to America. Both organizations are emphasizing the same issues. Every 2012 GOP presidential candidate is claiming to be a part of the Tea Party movement. Their anti-big government, low tax and deficit reduction rhetoric is helpful, but I do have a few reservations.
- Some Tea Party groups are too extreme and endorsed foolish candidates such as Dan Maes (R-C0), Trevor Drown (AR) and Alexander Snitker (Libertarian – FL). Republicans will probably not win the governorship in California, but it is foolish for a number of Tea Party groups to back third party candidate Chelene Nightingale. Her platform is based on conspiracy theories. She believes the U.S. government had advance knowledge of the 9/11 attack, and there are government airplanes dispersing chemicals to poison us. She is associated with the Minutemen hate group. They are radical vigilantes who try to take the law into their own hands.
- I would question the judgment of delegates to this year’s Utah Republican State Convention. They were were overwhelmingly Tea Party members. Over two thirds of them said Sen. Orrin Hatch was not sufficiently conservative and would not have their backing for his 2012 re-election. Hatch has a 90% rating from the American Conservative Union and is considered one of the most right wing members of the Senate. The delegates expressed a preference for Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) who has foreign policy views to the left of the Obama administration.
- Congressman Gresham Barrett (R-SC) has a 98% rating from the American Conservative Union. He attempted to address a Tea Party rally this year and over 5,000 people loudly heckled him. He was not allowed to complete his speech. His great sin was voting for the Bush administration’s TARP program which saved the U.S. economy in the fall of 2008. Over 90% of the money distributed by the Bush administration has been paid back, and a number of Tea Party members are confusing TARP with the Obama administration’s stimulus program.
- I am also concerned about some false claims. I admire Rush Limbaugh but he was wrong to say Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and other moderates would lead the Senate if the GOP gained a majority. Snowe is by far the most liberal Republican Senator, but she does not have a leadership position. Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (KY) and GOP Whip Jon Kyl (AZ) are solid conservatives, and right wingers would replace liberals on practically all Senate committees.
- The major Tea Party triumphs were the primary victories of Sharron Angle (R-NV) and Rand Paul (R-KY), and the defeat of Senators Bob Bennett (R-UT), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) and Rep. Mike Castle (R-DE). Bennett would have won if the nomination had been decided in a primary rather than a state convention, and Castle would have won if the GOP primary had been open to independents. The pro-abortion Murkowski was primarily defeated by social conservatives. Sharron Angle and Rand Paul have received national attention for controversial comments, but both deserve credit for toning down their rhetoric in recent months. They both defeated fellow conservatives who had higher approval ratings and would have easily won their races for the U.S. Senate. Harry Reid has the highest negative rating of any Senate incumbent in the past decade, but Angle’s numbers are worse. I believe Reid will now be re-elected.
- The Tea Party is a huge plus to the GOP but many of its members are seeking ideological purity and a candidate’s electability does not concern them. This attitude will have an impact on the 2012 primaries, and many GOP candidates will try to avoid state conventions. Since 1976, the first-in-the-nation Iowa presidential precinct caucuses have been on center stage. On the Republican side the Hawkeye State has always been dominated by social conservatives. In 2008, Mike Huckabee defeated Mitt Romney by a 34% to 25% margin. Now the social conservatives have combined with the Tea Party movement, and the result will lessen the importance of Iowa. My guess is that several major GOP candidates who emphasize economic issues will skip Iowa and begin their campaigns in New Hampshire.
- Diane Olson and her allies portray Tea Party challengers as conservatives battling liberal Republicans. That is not true, and in some cases the isolationist Tea Party candidates were aliened with liberals on foreign policy and national security issues. This was a major point in my article.
- Let the debate begin.
Diane Olson of the Tea Party Debates Former RNC Staffer Gregory Hilton
OLSON: You know me, and I know you are “establishment” GOP. I think you still don’t get it. Here’s a great article you need to read and take to heart – and have your other Republican ‘establishment’ buddies do the same. We’re trying to SAVE the GOP. Stop shooting yourself in the foot. Rockefeller Republicans by Pat Buchanan http://townhall.com/columnists/PatBuchanan/2010/09/17/rockefeller_republicans/page/full/
HILTON: You are totally wrong about me, and I think you are wrong about Delaware. First, if I represent the GOP then it is a very conservative group. I was the Executive Director of the Conservative Victory Fund, and we provided more in cash contributions to conservative candidates than any other right wing political action committee. A front page article in the Washington Post referred to me as one of the eight leading activists in the New Right. I served in the White House Political Affairs Office during the Reagan administration and I was the RNC’s liaison to the Reagan White House. I wrote the political column in the conservative weekly Human Events for three years.
- Second, this has nothing to do with the Republican establishment. Every political rating agency in the nation has now shifted the Delaware seat from “Likely Republican” to “Likely Democrat”.
- Third, do you really want Pat Buchanan to be your source? He says America was wrong to fight in World War II, and is a complete isolationist. On foreign policy he is to the left of Nancy Pelosi.
- Fourth, Buchanan has criticized “Rockefeller Republicans” many times. He says Richard Nixon sold out to Rocky at the 1960 convention. What was Rockefeller’s demand? An increase in the defense budget.
- Fifth, lets hope Christine O’Donnell wins, but common senses says this will not happen. Obama carried the state by 25% in 2008. O’Donnell is trailing by 15% and only 11% are undecided. Buchanan’s attack on the Republican Party was answered today in “The Buckley Rule” by Charles Krauthamer. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/16/AR2010091604899.html
OLSON: I saw the Krauthamer column and heard him yesterday. I think in this case he is wrong too. People really need to wake up. AMERICA HAS CHANGED! America will vote for people who support AMERICA, not whose primary focus is Republican Party status quo. Don’t throw Buchanan at me that way, I’m not stupid. I can think for myself. I don’t agree with Buchanan on many things, but on this he is spot on. Just like the Republican Party establishment, you think the rest of us are stupid. Stop it, WAKE UP!
HILTON: No one said you were stupid, but you are blaming Republicans for what every political rating agency on the left and right has done. Senate candidate Chris Coons (D-DE) is terrible and once again, I sincerely hope O’Donnell wins. However, Delaware is a very tough state for any Republican. You don’t have to believe me, you can just listen to Christine O’Donnell in last night’s debate with Coons. She was backpedaling on several of her previous positions. If she was elected to the Senate she would continue to backpedal and would no longer be a Tea Party favorite.
For two decades she has been identified as a social conservative, but last night she said “This election is not about social issues.” Marco Rubio (R-FL) is also moving to the center and Rand Paul says he is no longer a libertarian. He was wise to break with his father on Israel and the defense budget. I want them all to win, and I recognize that GOP candidates in blue states face difficult barriers.
OLSON: The focus of both Democrats and Republicans is primarily party power, not necessarily American values or the American people. I wonder: if the TEA party candidates DON’T win the election, is it because the Republican Party intentionally cratered their campaigns? The Republican Party establishment can clearly be just as insidious as the Democratic Party when it comes to the desire to “keep Americans in line so they can be controlled”.
The GOP could try to crater these campaigns to show Americans they will not succeed if they don’t tow the GOP party line. It’s a question that must be asked, and the Republican Party MUST be monitored to make sure they do the right thing. Gregory, I’m glad to know you want these candidates to win – please MAKE SURE your GOP buddies put their money and time into that goal as well. WE WILL BE WATCHING. Don’t screw it up for all those wrong reasons. BE AMERICAN PLEASE! And then help us scrub the rest of the riff-raff from the Republican Party and replace with real Americans.
HILTON: Any list of liberal Republicans in the House and Senate would be very small. Furthermore, on practically every close vote in the 111th Congress, GOP moderates did not bolt from the conservative position. The times they bolted, such as cap and trade, was when they were not needed. The GOP was completely united on ObamaCare. I was disappointed Mike Castle did not vote with us on cap and trade, but I would never say he is not a “real American.” You are fighting an imaginary enemy. The GOP is fully supporting its nominees.
There is discrimination against candidates who can not win, but so-called Tea Party candidates are receiving full funding. Sharron Angle (NV), Joe Miller (AK), Mike Lee (UT), Rand Paul (KY), Ken Buck (CO) and Marco Rubio (FL) would agree with that. I do not need to remind the Republican Party to support them because it has already happened. Republicans are not doing anything to sabotage these campaigns, but they are doing a great deal to help them.
Can you tell me which Republicans are not real Americans? I am not fighting any Tea Party group. I did not endorse Gov. Charlie Crist of Florida. The first independent expenditure of the National Republican Senatorial Committee was for TV ads to promote Rand Paul. The GOP is supporting all of its nominees and it is not sabotaging anyone’s campaign. Both Republicans and Democrats have always supported incumbents. State Party’s are free to make their own endorsements. The NRSC should not have had a role in Florida.
OLSON: You don’t seem to fight the TEA Party but the Republican establishment seems to, and you absolutely support the Republican establishment. That’s the connection people are making. Just a little additional information about the Republican ‘establishment’, I loved this article. Sarah Palin is a woman who is not about trashing candidates on air, nor regressing. Instead, she goes out there, fundraises, speaks to the public, and gets going with promoting conservative candidates. However, the establishment is still stuck on stupid: Sarah Palin to the establishment: “Buck up or stay in the truck” http://cubachi.com/2010/09/17/sarah-palin-to-the-establishment-buck-up-or-stay-in-the-truck/
Here is the truth Americans are seeing: The Republican establishment backs liberals like Mike Castle — a pro-abortion, pro-gun control, tax and spend liberal who calls himself a Republican — who as a Congressman sided with the Democrats more than Republicans. Tea Party conservatives figured it’s better to back a conservative with a chance she might lose in November than support a liberal Republican who votes for Democrat policies they’ve rejected. So Christine O’Donnell whipped Castle for the Republican Senate nomination in Delaware. The Republican regime went into a snit, called O’Donnell names and cast doubts about her electability.
Karl Rove, the former advisor to President George W. Bush and architect of many of the Republican failures during the Bush years that resulted in the ascendancy of the current Democrat and Obama regime, was the poster child of regime arrogance on election night. He called O’Donnell nutty, and added other less-than-flattering adjectives. The National Republican Senate Committee said it would not be supporting her candidacy. What arrogance! No matter. Tea Partiers responded. On Wednesday after her nomination, O’Donnell saw donations pour in from across the country. Her website crashed from the traffic. Sensing trouble, the NRSC relented and quickly cut a check to her campaign.
HILTON: You don’t get it and you never will. This has been explained to you numerous time, but you will never accept the fact that there is a difference between the electorates in South Carolina and Massachusetts. The point is that you are outraged over liberal Republicans who are a very rare breed. Your attitude is the reason ObamaCare was passed. We only needed one more GOP vote but the libertarians defeated moderate GOP Senators Norm Coleman (MN), Gordon Smith (OR) and Slade Gorton (WA).
You will no longer tolerate RINO’s. Chris Christie picked a Lt. Governor who is pro-abortion, Scott Brown voted for the financial regulations bill, Ronald Reagan signed tax increases as Governor and as President. Dwight Eisenhower and Gerald Ford would obviously not be acceptable in your version of the Republican Party. The Democrats are in the majority because they accept the Blue Dogs, you will not tolerate two ladies from Maine who are really the only remaining liberal Republicans.
OLSON: You sound just like the Democrats and the rest of the GOP establishment. “America, you just don’t get it. We the establishment know what’s best for you.” LOL! Stay tuned, Gregory, you’re in for a surprise.
HILTON: I hope to be surprised in Delaware but you still do not understand the basics of political science. There is a reason no hard core conservatives represent New England or the mid-Atlantic states. Many outstanding conservatives have tried to be elected in this region, but almost all of them were defeated. This will be an excellent year for all Republicans but I continue to be skeptical of Christine O’Donnell’s prospects. I hope she wins but it would be a major upset. Every time we lose by one vote next year I will send you a note, “Mike Castle would have voted with us.” Term limits were part of the 1994 Contract with America, but many people who originally advocated them later changed their minds.
OLSON: You have it backwards. The Republican Party needs to vote with AMERICANS. NOT with the Republican establishment. If you lose a vote next year it’s because the establishment Republicans still aren’t getting it right. So then we’ll replace THEM in the next election.
HILTON: I think you have everything backwards because there is no mysterious Republican establishment, and if it does exist it is throughly conservative. You are battling an enemy that does not exist. Why do you hate Chris Christie and Scott Brown? I am glad they won. I am pleased Karl Rove’s American Crossroads will be making $52 million in independent expenditures that will primarily help Tea Party candidates. He is assisting outstanding conservatives but you just want to criticize Rove. I think he has done far more than you for the conservative cause.
OLSON: Yes, you’re quite right about Karl Rove – he is wrong in THIS instance but usually I really agree with him. I’m disappointed that he seems to be missing what is happening, and actually helping undermine it to some degree. Of course he has done more than me for the Conservative cause, but that doesn’t mean I should just be quiet when he clearly makes a costly mistake. I understand we all make mistakes, it’s human.
The point is people NEED to understand this was a mistake by Rove. Don’t let it do any more damage, please! This is an article from today’s American Thinker that you should read. Please keep an open mind and encourage the rest of the Republican Party folks to think about this also. The Krauthamer-Rove Axis of Disdain by Lee Carey. http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/42323/674279.html
HILTON: This has little to do with Karl Rove and Charles Krauthamer. Christine O’Donnell just canceled her appearances on both CBS’ Face the Nation and Fox News Sunday. Fox would have been a very friendly format. Most candidates would be thrilled to have that type of exposure, especially a campaign that is dependent on internet fundraising. Recent stories are about Christine and witchcraft. Democrats have posted a 1999 Bill Maher video were O’Donnell said she ‘dabbled in witchcraft’.
She said “I hung around people who were doing these things. I’m not making this stuff up. I know what they told me they do. One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar and I didn’t know it. I mean, there was a little blood there and stuff like that. We went to a movie and then had a little picnic on a satanic altar.” My point is that O’Donnell’s negative rating with independent voters will rise and Delaware is a tough state for any Republican. I sincerely hope she wins, the Democrat is terrible, but the barriers she faces are significant.
Center/right Republicans will disappoint us from time to time. The author of the article you posted singled out Sen. George Voinovich (R-OH) for criticism. Today we are doing well in Ohio, but that was not true during Voinovich’s last term. I have an open mind in that I am not advocating a purity test. I am a conservative but I do not want Voinovich and center/right Republicans to leave the GOP. Our prospects for 2010, 2012 and 2014 are excellent. I want as big a majority as possible, and that will place conservatives in control of key committees in the U.S. Senate.
OLSON: Yes, I hear you Gregory. I saw that crap the Dems are putting out there. Notice how well the GOP vetted Obama – ? Seriously, many of the GOP candidates are as liberal or worse than the Dems. Those Republicans should NOT get our votes and should not even be allowed on the ticket. America will be voting for substance.
HILTON: I absolutely disagree with you. You are saying “Seriously, many of the GOP candidates are as liberal or worse than the Dems.” That is definitely not true. Mike Castle is far better than Chris Coons or Joe Biden. Scott Brown is far better than Ted Kennedy.There are few GOP moderates left and they are primarily from mid-Atlantic and New England states where it is very difficult to elect a conservative. Every Republican was opposed to ObamaCare, and once again, moderates voted with conservatives on practically all key votes in the 111th Congress. They were against us on things such as cap and trade when we did not need them.
Christine O’Donnell is also avoiding the conservative media. She just canceled on Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren. Rand Paul did the same thing and his ratings improved since he avoided the national media. He insists on press questions being submitted in writing. Paul’s fundraising has declined and he is the frontrunner, but unlike Delaware, Kentucky is a Red State. My message to Christine O’Donnell would be from Tim Russert, “If you can’t answer tough questions then you can’t make tough decisions.” Furthermore, you are criticizing Karl Rove for being against the Tea Party, but his organization is spending millions on independent expenditures to elect Sharron Angle (R-NV).
OLSON: Don’t assume that I would EVER vote for a Democrat even over the worst Republican. There are other options, and the TEA Party may just go for other options instead of a very bad Republican or a worse Democrat. We need to populate the Republican candidates with VIABLE options to vote for. Republicans will NOT just get votes by default.
HILTON: Viable or electable candidates are essential. I would encourage all GOP candidates to avoid discussing topics on national TV such as witchcraft, masturbation, premarital sex, comparing pornography to adultery, bringing back prohibition and opposition to the civil rights act. It is foolish to advocate giving up America’s veto power in the UN Security Council, immediately pulling out of Afghanistan, and saying the best response to the 2008 economic crisis was to allow the U.S. banking system and our economy to collapse.
OLSON: I certainly agree with you on that! Viable or electable candidates are NOT what they used to be. THAT’S what the Republican Party needs to understand. The GOP seems quite thick-headed, no offense intended. This article explains the problem with the Republican establishment very well:
The Republican establishment backs liberals like Mike Castle — a pro-abortion, pro-gun control, tax and spend liberal who calls himself a Republican — who as a Congressman sided with the Democrats more than Republicans.
Tea Party conservatives figured it’s better to back a conservative with a chance she might lose in November than support a liberal Republican who votes for Democrat policies they’ve rejected. So Christine O’Donnell whipped Castle for the Republican Senate nomination in Delaware. The Republican regime went into a snit, called O’Donnell names and cast doubts about her electability. Signs of a Crumbling Regime by Bob Livingston, http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/government/signs-of-a-crumbling-regime/
HILTON: This article is written by Bob Livingston who is a birther and conspiracy theory advocate who says all vaccines are useless and dangerous. He claims the Bilderberg Group is running the world. He describes himself as an “ultra-conservative,” and I previously answered all of these observations. I want Chris Christie and Scott Brown in the Republican Party, and Mike Castle’s moderate voting record is almost identical to the GOP lawmakers from New Jersey and suburban Philadelphia.
I do not want to kick them out of the Republican Party. Mike Castle was with us only 65% of the time, but that is better than zero, and he was with the GOP on all of the close votes. There was no “Republican regime” calling Christine O’Donnell names, only Karl Rove and Charles Krauthamer. They questioned her electability in a state Obama won by 25%, and she has done many things to damage her credibility. He quotes Richard A. Viguerie who never supports GOP presidential candidates.
Bob Livingston is wrong and the GOP is not facing a tsunami this November. His anti-war rhetoric and isolationism is also wrong. He criticizes Obama for the Afghan surge which was the President’s best decision. The Bush administration was not a fascist regime, and Livingston is trying to manufacture barriers when there is no disagreement between Republicans and the Tea Party on major issues. I am not taking Livingston’s advice and I will not spend today stockpiling food and water.
OLSON: Just because a GOP voting record is like other GOP voting records doesn’t mean they’re representing their constituents or America. The Democrat voting record is all the same too! These RINOs will no longer be tolerated by America. THAT’S the point. They are NOT representing America and America WON’T have them any more. Please see Rush Limbaugh Gets It on O’Donnell By Christopher Ruddy: http://www.newsmax.com/Ruddy/limbaugh-odonnell-castle-rove/2010/09/19/id/370827
You still don’t understand the power of the American people and that we are taking OUR country back from these ‘establishment’ people who have failed us miserably. America is AWAKE (at least most of us are). These positions of power are no longer lifetime positions. We need term limits, obviously, but if the establishment won’t help us the American people will enforce term limits ourselves. Our country has changed. I guess you and I will just continue to disagree on what that means. Stay tuned. This American Thinker article parrots your position, but the comments support my position: Time for the GOP to Unite By Richard Baehr http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/time_for_the_gop_to_unite.html
HILTON: The article is excellent but many of the comments are silly. The Republican Party is not trying to undermine Tea Party candidates. For example, the National Republican Senatorial Committee is spending $3.2 million for TV advertising time for Ken Buck (CO) and $2 million for Rand Paul (KY), and the committee is already on the air in Colorado and Kentucky. The NRSC has also reserved about $3 million each for Marco Rubio (FL) and Pat Toomey (PA), and $900,000 for Sharron Angle (R-NV).
The committee has reserved less for Angle because her fundraising has been stellar. You condemn some mysterious “Republican establishment” and Karl Rove, but his independent expenditures are matching the NRSC. The RNC has done a poor job of fundraising but there is no example of them discriminating against the Tea Party. The article you posted says in Delaware ” The GOP will likely lose a seat it easily could have won. . . The GOP will remain a minority party if it expels all its moderates.” Also, the Democrats had a super majority because they did not insist on liberals and backed candidates such as pro-life moderate Bob Casey in Pennsylvania.
OLSON: There’s nothing like good old “silly” comments from real Americans! Gregory, I figured you would say something like that. The Republican establishment (oops, I mean status quo, good old boys) is so predictable! You are proving to be the same level of challenge as the rest of the old boy Republican establishment. However, I think you have potential to eventually become more enlightened. Gregory, I still have hope for you! But it would be great to have EVERYONE fight for America instead of you old status quo folks continue to fight for the Republican party over America. No worries, we’ll eventually get you straightened out.
I love yanking your chain. You’re only mildly affected with the Liberal disease, I think we can get you healthy again. Here’s another American Thinker article you’ll enjoy about us stupid, unwashed TEA party America-loving patriotic US Constitution loving masses:Help for the Tea Party Unwashed Masses by Stuart Schwartz http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/help_for_the_tea_party_unwashe.html
HILTON: I do have common sense, and I do not regard ignorance as representing real Americans. You are so predictable and no amount of logic ever sways an extremist. I still have hope for you, and perhaps you will be straightened out. Nevertheless, you live in a fantasy world. No one is fighting so the Republican Party can triumph over America. You can not speak for the United States and you are waging an imaginary battle.
The Fox News poll out today has Christine O’Donnell being defeated by a 54% to 39% margin. Joe DioGuaradi (R-NY), 70, who has no money and no media exposure is running 5% ahead of O’Donnell. I hope you enjoy all of these comments because it is the only victory you will experience. Because of Delaware, the Tea Party could well be responsible for continued liberal control of the U.S. Senate.
OLSON: Once again you have it backwards Gregory. We don’t want to triumph over America – WE ARE AMERICA. We ARE America. And it doesn’t matter if Mike Castle would have voted with the Republicans or not on various issues – he ISN’T our candidate. AND our candidate will hopefully vote with America – even opposing the Republican elitists when appropriate. I understand that is very upsetting to the status quo, and I empathize with you all. It would great if we can all work together on behalf of America FIRST instead of the Republican party elitists.
HILTON: No one gives you the right to speak for America. I disagree with liberal Republicans and Democrats, but it is foolish to keep saying over and over again that they are not “real Americans.” You are going to keep the status quo, liberal Democratic control of the U.S. Senate. This has nothing to do with elitists and it has everything to do with common sense.
OLSON: America has the right to speak for ourselves. NO ONE gives the Republican or Democratic party the right to speak for America. Our elected officials are supposed to represent us, that is, Americans. They aren’t doing that and haven’t been in a long time. Many or most of those folks have lost touch with real America, and their focus is on building their own power base instead of on properly representing the American citizens and our ideals we uphold so dearly – those things that make our country great. It has everything to do with elitists and nothing to do with common sense. We, the Americans, are injecting common sense into the Republican party every way we know how. In some cases it is working, in other cases not so well (yet).
HILTON: I would never say a political opponent is not a “real American.” You keep making false statements about the Republican Party. The party does not claim to speak for America, it is not composed of wealthy elitists and it is certainly not liberal. You are waging a battle against a fantasy target. There are very few liberals left in the GOP, and Democrats are in the majority because they have included moderates in their ranks. So much of your Tea Party rhetoric is nonsense. You are talking about primaries where one conservative defeated another conservative. The “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” proposal failed in the Senate today because the moderate/liberal Republicans did not abandon the GOP. The Democrats needed 60 votes, but they did not get them.
OLSON: I have to laugh at this “You are so predictable and no amount of logic ever sways an extremist.” You called me the e-word! Extremist. Wow – that’s getting dirty! It puts me in good company with Glenn Beck and other people with American values, and puts you in good company with Liberal Democrats! I really understand the GOP establishment is running really scared that Americans want to take back our country. PLEASE don’t keep going the path the Liberal Democrats are taking! Please. Just be aware. People are noticing. Here’s a clip you may recognize yourself in:http://video.foxnews.com/v/4343161/beck-are-you-a-radical
HILTON: I really understand that you are an extremist and no amount of logic will ever have an impact on you. You will never let facts get in the way. I hope you are really scared next year when you realize that your foolishness resulted in liberal victories. You will never compromise so defeat is guaranteed. PLEASE don’t keep going down the path which helps the liberal Democrats! Please. Just be aware. People are noticing.
OLSON: Greg, you are a match to spar with. Thanks for keeping a sense of humor. Here is a quote for you, ” ”Extremism In The Defense Of Liberty Is No Vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9buEI8SgwU
HILTON: I am definitely not calling the Tea Party extremists, but I would characterize you in that manner. I do want thank you for repeating that quote from Sen. Barry Goldwater’s (R-AZ) acceptance speech at the 1964 Republican National Convention in San Francisco. It is hard to think of a sentence in any acceptance speech which has done more damage to a nominee. Walter Mondale’s (D-MN) 1984 promise “I will raise your taxes,” would come in second place.
Survey results demonstrated that even a significant number of Republicans began to view Goldwater as an extremist after that remark. Goldwater was outstanding on foreign policy and national security issues, and he would do a fine job debating Tea Party isolationists if he was alive today. He also deserves praise for his efforts to denounce the John Birch Society when they attacked President Eisenhower, who is obviously not one of your favorites.
Another major problem is that Goldwater’s comments about “moderation in the pursuit of justice” was not credible. It was an enormous stain on the GOP’s reputation when Goldwater voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and Republicans have never recovered. Eisenhower received 30% of the black vote in 1956, and now it is difficult to think of a GOP candidate receiving 10%.
If Republicans ever did receive 20% of the black vote, the American political landscape would be changed permanently. I am definitely a conservative, but I am proud GOP moderates from New England and the mid-Atlantic were in the forefront of the battle to pass the Civil Rights Act (1964), the Voting Rights Act (1965) and the Fair Housing Act (1968). I really hope the day will come when the party of Lincoln will be able to recover some of its support among African Americans. That will never happen if we talk about extremism, claim our opponents are not “real Americans,” or advocate revising the Civil Rights Act.
OLSON: No offense intended but has anyone ever kindly pointed out your head seems to be made of concrete? You most definitely are not a conservative – you only convince yourself of that because the pendulum has swung so incredibly far to the radical left. That is why you view me and other conservative Americans as extremists. We are not extremists. We are true conservatives. We are real conservatives. We represent most of America.
And America (that is us) has awakened from slumbering while liberals take our country so far left we are in serious danger of losing it altogether. I certainly invite you to join us. You would be most welcome. But please do something about the concrete problem! I agree, compared to the radical left you hold more conservative values. Compared to America and real conservatives you are at best borderline left of the conservative section.
HILTON: I am not trying to be cruel but Laird Wilcox, the author of “What Is Political Extremism?,” identifies traits which do describe your behavior. A political extremist engages in “character assassination, name calling and labeling,” and has “a tendency to view critics as essentially evil.” Once again, I said you are an extremist but I never said that about the Tea Party or my fellow conservatives. My right wing credentials are amply demonstrated by the numerous articles in my Notes section, my website and by my entire career.
I also do not accept your definition of conservatism. It is not conservative to be isolationist or protectionist. Your libertarian friends advocate a foreign policy which is well to the left of the Obama administration and their opposition to the Patriot Act, FISA and other measures are dangerous to our national security. I support Ronald Reagan’s foreign policy of freedom, while some of your pals are advocating a foreign policy of failure. Those are concrete problems, and I hope you will join us in opposing the blame America first crowd.
As you know, I am not the only one calling you an extremist. One of your liberal friends, a college professor, said “A few ignorant and rather malicious comments will not get this informed, intelligent and committed liberal to leave the country. Frankly, I’m getting tired of being told every day that I’m an idiot or a moron just because I have an ideological position that is different from yours. One thing I’ve always valued about the people I truly call friends is our ability to tolerate each others’ differing viewpoints. When political zeal starts to override basic civility perhaps it’s time to rethink your beliefs.”
You responded by saying “As divided as this country is today, should ANY conservative try to be friends with ANY liberal in this environment? Or is that simply naive? . . Is there a liberal conspiracy to identify and ‘report’ people they think are conservatives?”I have benefited from friendships with people who have a wide range of views. I do not call them harsh names, I listen and try to see things from their point of view.
This is the essence of the democratic process. I disagree with the liberals on every issue but I admire them for being politically astute in building coalitions that includes left wingers and moderates. The Democratic moderates were used to pass a liberal agenda, and the GOP should learn from their experience. I still believe in Ronald Reagan’s big tent theory.
OLSON: Interesting. I see now you don’t view this with the humor I do! Seems you’re getting a bit grouchy.
HILTON: I will let you have the last word.
OLSON: Thank you Gregory, you are a real gentleman! I’ll take you up on that offer. You must have spent quite some time looking at my FB page for evidence that I’m an ‘extremist’. I see you found a liberal comment and took a small piece of one of the subsequent comments out of context. Liberal tactics at their best! Kudos to you.
I noticed liberal tactics used throughout our other interactions also, just so you’re aware real Conservatives can pick those things out. For example, drawing an invalid conclusion that if I agree with something someone writes, I must then agree with everything else that person has ever written, said or done. Very liberal, very deceiving, very illogical and very incorrect. Kudos to you again, there may still be a few people fooled by those tactics.
Another example of the liberal tactics used in our exchanges is the Republican party initial dismay at TEA party candidates making it through the primaries, followed by denial of that dismay once it became clear America wouldn’t stand for that behavior from this party. Many liberal Democrats and RINOs are using that same tactic to try to get reelected although much of America knows the tiger stripes don’t change.
Another example is the implication in your comments that TEA party candidates wouldn’t have voted with the rest of the entrenched Republican status quo to block the ‘military’ bill that included the DREAM bill. You’re absolutely wrong about that. It’s the entrenched Republican establishment we worry about in terms of whether or not they will protect America versus take bribes or bow to Reid’s blackmail. But, perhaps some people will still fall for those liberal tactics.
The desperation of the entrenched Republican establishment is showing in these exchanges. I’m sorry to put you through this, but it’s clear you are not in touch with America. Perfectly understandable since you’re part of the DC crowd, but don’t be too surprised that America is seeing this and is not pleased. I hope to continue these exchanges because we need the entrenched Republican establishment and the rest of America to communicate. It helps America understand the weaknesses remaining in the Republican party so we can make sure they get properly addressed.